Learn about facilitating better meetings with Dr. Curtis Rogers.

All right, wonderful.

Welcome.

Hello, and welcome to our Impactful Projects

and Planning Series.

I'm Jami Yazdani.

And today's session we'll be talking with

Dr. Curtis Rogers of Curtis Rogers Consulting

about facilitating better meetings.

And so Dr. Rogers has worked in the library

field for more than 30 years and retired as

the communications director for the South

Carolina State Library in 2021.

He currently provides online and in person

training for libraries and nonprofits, and

communications, PR signage, meeting skills,

and more.

So welcome, Curtis, thanks for being with

with me today.

Tell us a little bit about your work and your

business.

What impact are you hoping to create for your

clients?

Well, like you said, I retired from the library

and information science field that I had been

in for over 34 years.

And I've been consulting for a couple of years

now.

And I'm really enjoying doing what I wanted

to concentrate on.

And that is online in person training.

Like you mentioned, I do webinars, and I've

also done staff education days for for libraries,

I would like to work with more nonprofits,

because I think a lot of those skills transfer,

but I decided I wanted to do what brought

me joy and training really brought me the

most joy.

And I think the impact that I'm hoping to

create for my clients is to improve critical

thinking skills.

I when I talk to a group, I really emphasize

that, thinking critically about things and

really taking time, which I know is difficult

in in all of our work climates, but to take

more time to think critically about different

situations, whether that may be improving

your meetings, or your communication skills,

or PR and marketing.

What have you.

So I think that's really important.

Wonderful, thank you.

So in your career, 27 year career at the South

Carolina State Library, you've also been president

of the South Carolina Library Association.

I know you through your work with a LA's library

consultant in credit interest group.

So I know because I've seen you do it.

I've seen your facilitate meetings, and I'm

sure in that career, you've attended and facilitated

a lot of meetings.

What are some areas where you tend to see

folks struggle as they lead meetings?

Well, that's a great question.

I think that there are three areas that people

whether or not that be the host of a meeting,

or people just attending mean things.

I think there are three areas where people

struggle, I think, hosts tend to struggle

the most with planning meetings, I think a

lot of times, we tend to say to ourselves,

well, we need to have a meeting about such

and such.

And so I'll schedule a meeting.

And that's it.

But I what that leads into is a lot of dis

a lot of confusion on the part of the attendees,

and it just doesn't make things go well.

So you have to put a lot of time into planning.

And what you need to do is to provide that

agenda ahead of time, I think a lot of times

meetings fail, or people are hosting meetings

and they're struggling with with that is that

time that it takes to really get organized,

you have to block that time off, you have

to actually put it on your calendar, you know,

a couple of days before, block off time to

plan for that meeting, and create that agenda.

And you also need to provide that agenda to

all meeting attendees at least 24 hours in

advance, because what that does is that affords

them the opportunity to start to mentally

prepare for what's going to take place during

that meeting.

I think another area that people struggle

with, especially if they're hosting a meeting,

is when the meeting gets off topic.

And it's it's something that we all have to

deal with.

And it's important to get back on topic.

But you also have to know as a meeting facilitator,

when you actually should take a meeting in

a different direction, because someone may

be raising a concern that is very valid, and

you need to be able to think ahead.

Do I need to have a parking lot for this meeting?

Are there going to be topics that potentially

come up where we need to park them?

And you know, have another meeting about later

do we you know, are we able to fit in everything

into this meeting?

Or do we need to have a second meeting so

you really need to be able to think on your

feet as a meeting.

Post.

And once you understand all the nuances of

everything that goes into that planning that

agenda, and the potential of what off topic,

things either need to be parked or need to

be followed up on at that time, you have to

really go with the flow.

So while you're doing something that's very

structured, you also have to treat it as an

organic thing.

So you know, things can pop up, things can

get off topic.

But again, you need to know what to follow

what to do, what not to do.

Yeah, I love that you point out.

So I'm a huge fan of meeting agendas.

And I often hear from folks, because conversations

go in different ways that, oh, well, what's

the point of an agenda?

Because we might not follow it.

I do think, though, an agenda, as you said,

gives folks time to think and be prepared.

often I see people, you know, kind of, say,

present something and then say, well, what

do you think about this?

Well, they just heard it.

I'm somebody who is pretty good.

I can talk on my feet, but there are thoughtful

people who like to think before they speak.

And those people, you know, appreciate knowing

that you're going to be talking about a couple

of things.

And so I appreciate that.

That's, that's what you shared.

So would you say that there are challenges

kind of particular to leading meetings in

the mission driven space, so in libraries,

nonprofits, that might be different than other

spaces?

Well, I think that, again, a lot of these

things that I talked about in my training

session, which I have called rethink, can

rejuvenate your meetings that I offer, there

are a couple of challenges that I think are

important to address.

And the first one is lack of follow up.

I think a lot of people once they maybe put

together an agenda, but even if they don't,

they have the meeting, and the meeting is

it.

And you know, during a meeting for it to go

really well, there are a number of components,

but one of the most important things is for

either you as the host to take minutes or

notes, or have someone else who is attending

to take minutes and notes.

So you got you as the host can, you know really

be concentrating on the flow of the meeting.

It's kind of like when you're in a zoom session,

you have someone else checking the chat either

just so that you can if you're, you're facilitating

that.

So I think lack of follow up is really detrimental

to that that meeting, process.

If you don't follow up with meeting minutes,

or notes, at least 24 hours after the meeting

has taken place.

People forget what they're supposed to do.

They don't know what they're supposed to follow

up on.

They you know, even if it's two or three days

later, they're they've already gone on to

other things.

And I mean, we all have a lot of stuff on

our to do lists.

So that lack of follow up can be really detrimental

to the what the meeting was supposed to be

about to begin with.

A lot of times during meetings, if you have

a really well planned agenda, you have tasks

and you create a list of things to do.

And that's all part of that follow up.

So I think that's a particular challenge for

people who are leading meetings is that lack

of follow up.

And the other thing I want to talk briefly

about which can be a huge challenge.

I know I've been in many meetings where this

has happened.

And I know a lot of people out there had been

in meetings where this has happened.

And that's the person in the meeting who is

easily identified as someone who is a conversational

narcissist.

This is a really, really difficult thing to

have to deal with.

These are the kinds of people and they usually

tend to be male in gender.

They tend to be a kind of person, not necessarily

narcissistic in their everyday lives, but

just a conversational narcissist.

So they tend to always be the expert on a

specific topic, and they always want to bring

that topic that they know the most about back

to the foreground.

They also tend to shut down during meetings

if the conversation strays away from what

they're interested in.

And they can also take up a lot of unnecessary

time going off on tangents, thinking about

other things that relate to maybe an agenda

topic.

And it's something that's hard to deal with,

especially if it's your supervisor, or someone

in a position of power.

But the way that you You have to deal with

the conversation on narcissists is to be confrontational.

And actually you need to either address it

during the meeting, or immediately after the

meeting.

And it needs to be done in writing.

You need to, you need to involve human resources,

you need to involve that person supervisor.

But it can be something that's really disruptive

to what is actually trying to take place during

the meeting.

And that is to get the work done of your organization.

So that lack of follow up I think, is really

a challenge and also dealing with the conversational

narcissist.

There's a great set of YouTube videos.

And I think it's by med circle, Dr. Romany,

she does a wonderful series of I think she's

just like college.

This does a wonderful series of videos on

how to deal with conversational narcissists

in many situations.

So I highly recommend that for folks who want

to learn more about having to deal with those

individuals in meetings because it can be

really disruptive.

Yeah, that's a conversational narcissist is

an interesting term.

And I think, as you said it probably anyone

listening I can think of one or two people

that they've been in meetings with who do

that.

And it is, I think, as a facilitator challenging,

and especially I think, in the mission driven

space, because often, you're hosting meetings,

maybe with board members, with users, with

people in your community, who may be kind

of at a different level than you, you know,

in a hierarchical space.

And so being able to kind of challenge those

folks, and kind of put them in line a little

bit and make sure they don't derail the conversation,

I think is, can be really, really hard.

But it's got to be done.

Otherwise, you might as well just give them

a mic and put them on a stage and and let

everybody else list.

Exactly, exactly.

And that's, and that's where a very structured

time allotted agenda can come in handy, because

you always have something to refer to.

And the conversational narcissist knows that

because it's on a piece of paper in front

of them.

So that's why that preparation is so important.

So do you have any we only have a few minutes

left?

Do you have any additional advice that you

might offer folks who are facilitating meetings?

I do, I think it's really important.

And I want people to think critically about

this.

But I think it's very important to change

your mindset about meetings, if your meetings

are failing, or if you've gotten in a rut,

and you really want to rejuvenate and rethink

how your meetings at your organization take

place.

You have to think of a meeting in a cycle.

And it's a three part cycle.

Once you stop thinking of a meeting as a single

event, I think you'll be able to have more

successful meetings.

So the three part meeting cycle is part one

is the planning.

And if you're going to have a one hour meeting,

then consider planning that meeting at least

for 30 minutes.

So you know, if you have a one hour meeting,

part one is the planning phase, you're going

to spend about 30 minutes thinking critically

about what needs to transpire during the meeting

and getting that information out to all the

people who need to have it.

And then part two is the meeting.

And if it's an hour meeting, you've got your

agenda, you know exactly who's supposed to

be doing what.

But then part three of that and you want to

spend maybe another 30 minutes is the follow

up.

And that's going through those meeting minutes

going through those meeting notes, making

sure that you get input from the attendee.

So sending those minutes out and saying, if

there's anything you see that maybe isn't

addressed in the notes or the minutes, please

let me know.

So that I can get you all that information

out as soon as possible.

So stop thinking of the meeting as a single

event, and start thinking of it as a meeting

cycle with those three phases.

And I think you'll be a lot more successful.

I love that.

Curtis, I think that's a great framework.

Because you're right, we do just think about

the meeting the hour on our kind of calendar.

But we need to kind of think about what happens

before and after.

And if you start kind of planning for that

process, then you know, you're already in

a better position.

So what's the best way for folks who might

want to work with you learn more about what

you do?

How should they reach out to you?

Well, the easiest way to reach out to me is

at my website, and it is a self made website.

So it is not the best website in the world,

but it's just at curtisrogersconsulting.com

and my email addresses there.

My social media links is there.

People can reach reach me through Facebook

or LinkedIn from there.

So Again, just curtisrogersconsulting.com.

Wonderful.

Well, thanks, Curtis, I really, really appreciate

your time.

This has been a great conversation.

And I always feel like we could spend an hour

on these conversations.

But I think you shared a lot and 15 minutes.

And so thank you, and thank you all who are

attending or watching.

Thank you for participating in our impactful

projects and Planning series.

You can visit yazdaniconsulting.com, IPP to

view all of the sessions in the series.

There's also for this one, a link to Curtis's

website there.

So that's another way that you can reach out

to him.

But you can also learn about all of our upcoming

sessions in this series.

So thank you