We talked with Rebecca Marchiafava about avoiding burnout.

Jami, hello and welcome to our Impactful Projects and Planning series. I am Jami Yazdani. In today's session, we're talking with Rebecca Marchiafava about avoiding burnout. A combined background in education, public health and leadership led Rebecca to found culture work, where she enhances communication, collaboration, engagement and well being in organizations an experienced trainer, facilitator and consultant, Rebecca goes beyond surface level approaches to make a positive impact with clients, describing her work as engaging, supportive, thoughtful and transformative. So welcome, Rebecca. I'm very excited to to have you here today. So tell us a little bit about your work and your business. What impact are you hoping to create for your clients?

Yeah, well, first of all, thank you so much for having me today. I'm looking forward to this conversation and yeah, to share a little bit more about culture work. Really, my overarching goal is to inspire and support more organizations to reflect on culture and use data to drive culture improvements and culture building efforts. So that's one of the main things. Main areas that I work around is leading culture assessments and supporting leadership teams and organizations in defining and intentionally building their culture. And then kind of on a more specific level, I'm really focused on the role that our workplace relationships play in in culture and our work environment. And so I focus a lot on working with organizations to strengthen their inter internal communications, whether that's through systems or trust building approaches. And I also work with teams to resolve workplace conflicts, whether we're talking interpersonal conflicts or conflicts about how the work should be done. And all of this is, you know, there's an underlying focus on increase, increasing and improving well being in the organization. So really believing that people should be able to do good and meaningful work while also achieving well being. So that's the balance I look to strike,

wonderful, wonderful, yeah. And as we were talking about a little earlier, you know, burnout is an issue in a lot of sectors. It absolutely impacts folks leading projects and teams, and particularly folks looking to make sure that their teams are not necessarily burning out. So I'm curious, what are some of the unique challenges that you see kind of nonprofits, other mission driven organization, kinds of people, focused teams and organizations face when it comes to burnout?

Yeah, I think that's a great question, and I think we can look at it from a more systemic level, and then also more personal and interpersonal level. So, you know, it's very widespread when we're talking about nonprofit, nonprofit or, you know, public sectors, public service sectors, to look at a context of kind of bureaucratic systems or kind of these hierarchies that exist around top down decision making, limited resources. And so there are a lot of factors that come within these larger systems, even when it comes to things like Grant timelines. If an organization is applying for grants or seeking to implement grants, those timelines can be really, you know, tight. And so there's a lot of different factors that can converge to kind of create a perfect storm of systemic barriers to preventing burnout and effectively addressing it, um. And so, you know, they're always being limited capacity to meet a great need. And then again, from that more personal or, you know, when we're looking within organizations, a lot of mindsets, you know, we tend to see people with help or personalities, right, with a tendency, a greater tendency than, you know, others to self sacrifice or behave in more selfless ways, and so that when it's not balanced, it can really lead and sort of foster these cultures of, you know, constantly over extending to meet needs or get all the things done, you know, wearing many hats, right, just as normalized in a lot of these organization systems. And so, yeah, all of that to together can present these unique challenges around burnout for nonprofits and yeah, public service organizations, yeah. I

mean, I do think the you know things being resource constrained. And I know I see that in projects, that in a lot of mission driven organizations, projects are on top of everybody else's. Already full plate, and so often your teams are kind of coming to you already exhausted. So what should we be looking for in terms of warning signs of burnout, both, you know, maybe in ourselves, or also in other folks?

Yeah. I mean, I think what you just mentioned of, you know, how are people coming to meetings? How are people coming to the work? Are we sensing high energy and motivation? Are we sensing low energy, kind of negative attitudes, or just that sense of overwhelm? So keeping our keeping a pulse on that and that can come through conversation, that can come through actually assessing people's energy levels. I'll do that in facilitations and things like, let's, let's assess where we are with our energy right now, and how we're feeling and knowing that that can evolve throughout projects. And so it's something that can be built in. But yeah, the signs and symptoms, you know, again, how are people presenting, but then also, what is what are we observing? So are people easily meeting deadlines? Are there dropped falls, missed deadlines? Are we sensing maybe some emotional reactivity or escalating tensions on our team and even withdrawal from the work. So that could be actual absenteeism, you know, more sick days and things like that, or it can be a more kind of mental or emotional withdrawal. So yeah, those are just some of the more individual or interpersonal, again, kind of going in that structure, signs of burnout, and then overall, on a team level, looking at, you know, what are our levels of staff engagement, staff morale, you know, what are, what is the collaboration? What is the vibe of the collaboration? Right? Again, are people coming to this? And it's feeling really good and positive in terms of collaboration and working through challenges, or are we running up against just all sorts of barriers and even trying to work together?

So yeah, I love the idea of doing sort of vibe checks, you know, particularly from a project management or kind of a planning team perspective. What are some ways that project managers and other leaders can support their teams, both in kind of preventing burnout, but also addressing it, if we're feeling it or seeing it?

Yeah, so for me, the foundation of all of this is respect. So just approaching people and teams with respect in the sense that recognizing the limits to our knowledge when it comes to working with other people so we don't know, what are all the other things that people have on their plates? You know, what are the potentially competing or conflicting priorities that they're trying to navigate? You know, what are people dealing with in their personal lives that's creating additional tension, stress, work life conflicts, um, so just kind of having, you know, sort of that hypothesis of generosity, like, even if we see people dropping balls, you know, not jumping to the worst conclusion about them, but setting a foundation For, you know, viewing people and treating people with respect, fostering respect in in meetings and conversations. And then, you know, I would look at looking at timelines, and I know we were even talking before we came on, about the challenges around timelines, because a lot of times those timelines can be set by leadership, by higher ups who are less connected to the day to day realities of the work. And I think that's a big tension, right? And so as much as possible, advocating for realistic timelines if things really are, the work, you know, is a lot more than it was initially envisioned. Being able to open lines of communication up to identify what those challenges are, but also to support teams and foster collaboration amongst teams, to be able to try to get creative and flexible about how the work gets done. So yeah, I think that issue of timelines, and I'm a big advocate for building and breathing room, so not just for project managers, but any leaders right, anticipating that there are things that will go wrong. People will get sick, there will be emergencies, there will be other, you know, priorities that that that come up. So just really thinking intentionally about those timelines. And yeah, yeah, I

was just going to say that's really, really helpful, because I think that's a a challenge for particularly, I think in the project management space, is that, you know, yeah, you may have six months to do a project that really should take eight months or nine months or a year. Yeah, and those deadlines are imposed sort of outside, you know, by funders or by leadership. And so, you know, I think sometimes we jump to, okay, well, how can we fit this all in six months? But I wonder if sometimes the conversation needs to be, what can we actually do in six months to move this forward, which I think, you know, is a hard conversation for a project manager to have with a leader. But what is reasonable, what can we actually do? What's what's realistic? I also think, you know, I often encourage project managers to have progress check in meetings with their team. So if there's big deadlines coming up, you know, just meet with someone a week or two ahead of that, that deadline to check in first of all, because if they're struggling, it's better to know before then after the deadlines pass. But also, I think it would be that opportunity to kind of have that more personal discussion right about how things are going and and and what you're seeing, so I appreciate the attention to timeline and respect, but I think there was something else you were gonna add around addressing, well,

I just wanted to, you know, emphasize what you're saying, because keeping open lines of communication, I would say, you know, that's really important for any work that we're doing together, even, you know, other traditional work we're doing in organizations so and but knowing that people can even be resistant to that, to that check in meeting, when their schedules are so overloaded and so making that time and then seeking to make those meetings or check ins as supportive and productive as possible as well. So looking at what is the quality of our time together and and I think making it fun too, right? Like, I think sometimes we get so serious around work, but what are the ways we can actually strive to make it more enjoyable when we are checking in, when we're coming together, just having a laugh about some of the shared struggles too, which seems simple, but it can go a long way toward addressing burnout in that sort of routine day to day way that we work together.

Well, I do think we don't spend enough time celebrating successes during a project or while a team is working. We kind of wait till the end, but by then, Everyone's tired and moved on to the next thing. And so are there ways to make sure that we're we are acknowledging people's contributions, not that that's necessarily going to fix their burnout, but at least it can help people feel that what they're doing has mattered, or that at least we see what their contributions are. But yeah, trying, trying to make those, those meetings fun. And I do think you mentioned trust earlier, and you know, I do wonder, what are some of the ways that that we can create that trust so that we can have better sort of conversations that might help us address burnout.

Yeah. I mean, I do think ongoing connection through check in, scheduled check ins and planning meetings. I know when I'm working with clients, it's something I strive for to say, you know, so many things can come up in between when we first decided what we're going to do, and when that, you know, deliverable is supposed to happen. And so just getting structured check ins on the calendar, and then again, looking at, how are we using that time together, potentially even, you know, digging for those barriers. A lot of times people may want to present like, Oh, I've got it all under control, but creating a safe space the best we can to say, you know, I'm here to support you, and I'm here to, you know, help you in figuring out if there's areas where you're feeling stuck, right and so I think a lot of stress can come up for people when they know or feel that they're behind and don't know how to get Through that, or push through, or even don't know the best way to approach something that's on their plate. So I think, really, yeah, getting curious with people, asking meaningful questions, and just through that, that focus on the work, that communication about the work, that can go a long way toward building trust and then following through, right? If there are things we say we're going to do, following through and following up with people and yeah, so it's really those little kind of day to day actions that we can take in the structured communication that's really essential to trust building

well. And I do think some of that authenticity as a leader. I think sometimes project managers leaders feel like they have to come in the room, like they know all the answers, and that they're not bothered by anything that's happening and and I, I don't think that creates trust, because either people think, wow, he or she has got it all together, and I'm not never going to be able to they're never going to understand my choice. Challenge, or they realize that you're you're putting on a front. And neither is good for for sort of team, I think team building and creating that trust.

Yeah, in fact, Gallup, I think, refers to that as managerial authenticity, and yeah, so it's, it's counter to a lot of older traditional ideas around management and leadership, but that being able to demonstrate vulnerability, you know, if there are questions that you don't have the answer to, instead of pretending you have the answers, you know, saying, I don't know, but I'm going to figure it out. And yeah, all of those little things. Again, I think the authenticity, the transparency, is really, really important. Because, yeah, people can people, people know, they bring up a false front. They

do. Well, wonderful. Thank you. This was a, I think, a really helpful conversation. And hope, hopefully have some folks thinking about some things that they might be able to do differently. So what's the best way for folks to reach out to you to kind of get your support and help for their teams.

Yeah, so I'm pretty active on LinkedIn. People are welcome to, you know, connect with me here. My website is culturework.co, and all of my contact information is on there, and yeah, and I also publish monthly on substack. So even if people just want to check that out, there's a link to that on my website, and I take deep dives into some of the issues that are common and, you know, challenges around workplace culture. So those are a few ways, but I would definitely recommend checking out my website and connecting further from there.

Wonderful. Well, thanks again, Rebecca for this conversation, and thanks everybody for joining us for our impactful projects and Planning series. We'll be back in August with our next event. Thank you.